please handle this as a response on your post named "On editorial judgment, and empathy" and as an addition to Dirk's "Sorry, Sue Gardner, but the image filter question exactly asks, who is in charge" and Jan's signpost topic "The global mission, the image filter and the "German question""
Who am I?
First let me introduce myself: I am Achim Raschka and I am one - if in quantity not the main - main authors of the German article Vulva. In this case I am one of those you adress with the "who are acting like provocateurs and agitators" that "need to be stopped". People like me you describe as "young well educated men in Europe". O.k. - maybe you call a man (me) around 40 years a young man and also maybe you think, a full-time employed and married father of four little children - a fifth on the way - spends hours of his rare time for an article on a sexual object just to agitate? What I really think is that it doesn't matter to you who I am and who all those other authors in the German community are that you adress in your post. So let me add some more informations on me only as a chance to learn who this vulva man should be: I am author in the German wikipedia since 2003 and have done about 70.000 edits (what is your score?), about 100 articles mainly written by me are selected as good or featured articles in these years. In January this year I was invited to San Francisco by your team to discuss about article quality and ways to adapt the ambassador programme to Germany, a bit later I was elected to be member of the board of the German chapter.
About the Vulva
In your post you claimed the "close-up photograph of an open vagina" (sorry to teach: it was an open vulva, no vagina which is an internal organ - article mainly written by me) as one of the main reasons to discuss about "handling controversial imagery."
So, as the author of this article, I was never asked by you about my (and our) reasons why this picture was shown on the main page, and also, the WMF never asked anyone of the German authors community, why they didn't choose to withdraw this picture after discussion. But although you never asked, I would like to tell you the vulva story:
The Vulva is one of the most viewed articles in the German Wikipedia and it was one of the most choosen topics as well before I decided to work on this article. Before I started this work it looked like this - an article on a main topic in a terrible condition. I - a biologist - worked mainly together with two gynecologists and a veterinarian and anatomist as well as a midwife I know from the birth of one of my children as an external advisor, all best known for their quality articles in the German Wikipedia, to push up this article from a volume of about 13 kB to the recent article with a volume of about 70 kB. Every single sentence, every chapter and even every picture was discussed in the editor's team and on the discussion page in terms of quality for the article and the described subject - every single picture was chosen for it's value for this article as this should be in Wikipedia!
After this work the article was elected to be a featured article in the German Wikipedia and was nominated by me for a presentation on the main page - together with the picture you call "controversial" (Why? It shows a natural, hairy vulva like my wife has one and even you have one!). The only reason for this nomination was to show that even in topics like this we are able to produce featured work and to show the product of a high concentrated team of experts from biology and medicine - no more and no less. That's all, that's the vulva story.
What a filter will effect
To go a bit further, I try to line out, what will be the effect of a filter to content like this: With the opportunity to filter content - text or pictures - chosen by others than the authors, you will hand over the discussion on content to users who never discussed any part of the content of the chosen articles. Why should a team of experts discuss any content of an article if it doesn't matter what they decide - why should we choose the best and most valuable content for Wikipedia if anywhere in commons and even at the reader's side our decision doesn't matter. Why should we write articles and work on them if even the WMF and their board don't appreciate this volunteer's work?
Maybe it doesn't matter to you if all those guys like me should withdraw their work in the German Wikipedia or even think and talk about a fork - maybe there will be a next generation of editors for this project and maybe we cannot withdraw because of addiction to this wonderful project - even maybe this will become reality I predict there will be a real big gap in trust between the volunteers in the German Wikipedia on the one hand and the Wikimedia Foundation and even the English project on the other hand, if you decide to overrule and act against the wishes of nearly the whole German Wikipedia community. And to cite Pavel Richter for a closing word: "The filter tries to solve a social problem by technical means – not a good idea."
Kind regards,
Achim Raschka
Image:Martina Nolte, CC-by-sa 3.0
Kommentare:
I dare say I was skeptical this Image filter. Especially since the so-called referendum turned out to be anything but a referenfum (a mix-up of poll and contribution call aimed to confort a decision already taken).
Your own post, along with several other comments, is contributing to transform my initial reluctance into mere reject.
In order to reassure you, I may tell you that, so far, the French community seems as enthusiastic about this fonction as the German community…
Alexander - are you able to set up a poll, similar to the German one? It needs to be at least as robustly designed, so as to be convincing to people who don't like whatever result comes out.
David Gerard - For the time being the French community is a bit fed up with polls : about ten during the past month, including some very difficult elections for the Arbitration Committee. But a poll on the Image filter issue might be doable in a few weeks. I dare say I haven't much doubts about the results. Every time the issue has been lifted, the reactions tended to be overly negative.
Hi Achim – thanks for writing this post. It's in the comments on my blog too – for some reason yours and 11 other comments had been stuck in the spamfilter: I've pulled them out.
This post you wrote makes me sad, because it illustrates to me how large the gulf currently is between you and me. OTOH it makes me happy, because now we have an opportunity to begin bridging that gap.
Let me start by stating the obvious: everyone involved in this discussion is feeling uncomfortable and maligned and stereotyped and labelled. I am, you are – lots of people are. I assume that's why you interpreted my post as labelling you as a provocateur or agitator. But you're wrong to interpret it that way: I've got no reason to think you're anything other than a really good Wikipedian.
Seriously. You've got 70,000 edits. I have read some of your articles. I've read your comments on talk pages. I think last week I gave a barnstar to somebody you had praised just a few days earlier. I don't know much about you, but everything I know about you suggests that you are fantastic. You certainly, obviously, have made an enormous contribution, on a totally voluntary basis, to the German Wikipedia. Obviously that's admirable, and it marks you as someone I would naturally value and respect.
So. When you assume I have a problem with the vulva article, you're actually just wrong. I read a Google-translated version, so clearly the original text is better than what I read. But it was obvious from my scan that the article itself is of the high quality a person would ordinarily expect from most Wikipedia articles, particularly in the German Wikipedia. I think it's a very good article.
I think a group of editors could have a useful discussion over the merits of different images that could be used in the article: I can imagine several reasonable points of view, but I don't myself have a strong opinion. I do believe that putting the article on the home page of the German Wikipedia was an error in judgment. I know that mainstream German attitudes towards nudity and/or sexual imagery are quite different from those of mainstream America (I'm not myself American, by the way) .. but at the same time we know the image was startling for some readers, and I would assume some were offended by it for a variety of reasons. But that's got nothing to do with you AFAIK. Even if it did, I would assume that many of the people involved in the decision to put it on the home page were acting in good faith. If you're a provocateur/agitator, I expect you probably know it :-)
Anyway. My apologies for this long comment. I just wanted to be clear that I have no quarrel with you. I'm glad you read my blog post. I'll be in Germany in November, and with luck I will get to meet you.
I have to add one more thing, that's a little pedantic. I actually do know that calling the image “open vulva” is less correct than “open vagina.” In my own defense though, I will say, I copy-and-pasted from the file description on Commons. So although I repeated the error, it actually originated with someone else.
Ein klassischer Fall von beleidigter Leberwurst, zudem völlig an Sues Argumentation vorbei.
To make it a bit more complex:
It was brilliant to improve the vulva article. It was just fine to chose explicit pictures within the article. It was more than appropriate to place the article on de:wikipedia's homepage.
But it was an in-your-face method of enlightment to use that picture on the main page. That was unnecessary, we should always chose a more cautiuos illustration four our mainpage e.g. by following the standards of book covers sold on top of the shop's counter.
Anyway, i still can't see the missing link between the vulva and the image filter: If that picture on the main page was an editorial mistake we should work on our standards for that page and for our processes. A filter won't help us doing that.
I don't think you understand the proposal. The proposal is to allow an individual reader to choose what sort of images he or she sees when viewing an article.
Nobody is making a choice for anybody other than themselves.
It seems to be necessary to point out that for some people, like me, the picture was just showing what the article is about. I did not have any feelings when I saw it. Why are people so emotional when they see pictures showing parts of bodies of your own species? Our cultural framework can always be re-defined and (not only) at this point, we should be able to deconstruct.
As far as I am concerned, I want to thank Achim for his wonderful work that makes the world a bit more enlighted and for the years I know him, he has never been a provocateur/agitator and has always tried to work in consensus and have a good relationship towards other wikipedians. Yes, I can prove, if somebody puts a "citation neede" tag here. Acting in this manner is quite rare when you put so much time into our little project.
@superbass:
This is what "The filter tries to solve a social problem by technical means" means - we have to - and we will - solve any controversal topics by discussion (even the arachnophobia picture where I am in contact with an external expert)
@Andrew Garrett: I totally understand the proposal - we will have lots of taggers in commons to tag pictures propably are controversal in their eyes without discussion with the authors of the articles; and even the readers will not have any choice on these - they have to trust that the taggers will tag in the way they should do.
The problem with the image filter is that the foundation without any need did open a big can of worms, and I mean a really big can with really terrible worms.
Instead of denying any attempts to filter Wikipedia content categorical and decisive teh foundation sent the signal to the world "If you can shout loud enough (or send enough money) we'll take action to censor our content as you wish".
The whole board with Sue Gardner as the person in the frontline did damage to the project in a extent which at this moment isn't foreseeable – just as we know that especially the English Wikipedia for years is struggling with creatonists and with manipulations through scientology.
I regard this attempt to install image filtering also as a slap in the face of the millions of soldiers who lost their live in two world wars to bring freedom and to defeat dictatorship.
I don't follow the work of the foundation very much and I do know nothing about what Sue actually has done for helping the community so far, aside of promoting a really, really bad idea. However all she achieved could not balance the damage she did with starting the image filter debate. Sue should resign. Actually the whole board should do this.
The problem is crossing contexts. In context, Wikipedia MUST have a photograph of a vulva. Absolutely, without question. However, there are MANY images to which people will PREDICTABLY object to seeing outside of their context. For example, I got a really bad road rash three weeks ago. Oozing blood. Should that photo be put on the front page? ABSOLUTELY WITHOUT QUESTION NOT.
If you have to think once about showing an image to your mother over the breakfast table, then it shouldn't go on the front page of ANY wikipedia.
It's all about editing and good taste, not censorship.
@Russ Nelson:
But the image-filter will not help you here: Because it will not be possible to hide the picture on the frontpage, but not in the article; either is is hidden both times or never.
@Russ Nelson:
The context on the front page is the addition of the teaser - so it is in the same context as in the article. But all in all, it doesn't matter because it is no problem that should be solved with any kind of filter! - if there is a problem with imagery we have to discuss it, not to filter one of the opinions with a technical "solution" ....
In reaction to your post, I finally wrote my own appreciation of the French reception of the Image Filter thing. Hope it'll add up some good pieces to the debate…
http://wikitrekk.blogspot.com/2011/09/out-of-blue.html
@Sue Gardner:
"I do believe that putting the article on the home page of the German Wikipedia was an error in judgment. [...] but at the same time we know the image was startling for some readers, and I would assume some were offended by it for a variety of reasons."
Good point: The problem (if there is any) are the "editorial standards" and instead of changing them, you'd rather install an image filter? That's strange.
@ Russ Nelson: My mother has a vulva, like I assume every mother has, and has born two females, so I guess, I cannot shock her by showing her a vulva, especially if it is just a picture of one in the internet. I will try out the next time I see her.
The only reluctance of showing the vulva on the main page I feel (but ex post) that it aroused so many misogynist comments, calling the picture of a vulva nasty or stuff, and a paternalistic discourse of a vulva being sexual therefore must be hidden. Sorry, but half of the mankind has a vulva as a normal part of its body. It is thoughts and culture that sexualise a body part, and yeah, obviously these are mainly male thoughts and a male culture, again...
And calling a vulva a vagina via c&p does not convince me, that this problem is brought up with the needed thoughtfulness.
I do not approve of the filter, however I cannot see how the fact that it tries to solve a social problem with technical means is necessarily a bad thing. If the technical means are fit for purpose, so be it. Our societies rely on technology for nearly everything. Therefore it is difficult to see why in this case, technology should not be invoked as part of the solution.
@Russ Nelson I fully understand that you would not want a picture of a really bad road crash, "oozing lots of blood" on the start page. However, it is strange that you would compare the image of a perfectly healthy body part to a fatal road crash. In my view, whoever thinks, the two are equally shocking, needs counselling.
http://lieselsartikel.wordpress.com/2011/10/02/bildfilter/
Why just an image filter, Sue? How about an optional text manipulation tool as well? For example, a reader may elect to have the phrase "Peace be upon him" automatically added after each mention of the name "Muhammad". You will get tons of positive feedback for sure. Okay, some of these wayward people who used to actually write this encyclopedia will be pissed off, but that's a small price to pay to make countless other people happy.
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